Actors in films shown in other films

[FatmanDan]

I'm not convinced to add films to lists, when actors (today's example: ´Il trucido e lo sbirro`) are seen in a film clip the protagonists watch in a cinema or the like. I think we should enclose only roles done for the actual film (plus footage scenes). Otherwise, we had to count every lobby card showing when appearing in a movie, seen on TV etc.
Opinions welcome!

[Johan Melle]

Well, I'm not entirely convinced that recycled footage from other films deserves to be counted as genuine roles either, but I certainly think it's worth documenting these "appearances" for the sake of completeness. For the moment, they are marked in the filmographies with "re-used footage" or something to that effect. Another option would be to separate these from the main filmographies and add them under a sub category called Re-used footage (or similar) as is done on IMDb for example.

[FatmanDan]

Johan, your suggestion to mention these appearances separately, is very good!
It would clearly differ them from "really" re-used footage (not to identify without knowledge of the original film) and indicate that the movies are used as what they were in other films.

[PeplumParadise]

As Johan said, I agree that all appearances including re-used footage should be posted in the topics, to be as complete as possible.

Whether or not "re-used footage" and "films shown within films" (ones which show a pre-existing film rather than specifically shot new footage) belong in filmographies is an interesting topic, technically they still represent an appearance by an actor in a film, whether the footage was shot specifically for that film or not.

Maybe they should be included among the "Additional credits" sections below the filmographies where we put things such as interviews and appearances in documentaries? Presumably films which combine re-used footage and new footage would need to be included in both.

Also worth remembering that an average audience member (as opposed to "experts" like ourselves) seeing a film such as Il trucido e lo sbirro would not know if the footage used for the film-within-the-film (at least in the case of lesser known films such as in this instance) was re-used or shot specifically for that film, any more than they would for any other re-used footage.

[Johan Melle]

I've put a link to this topic in Admin Tasks so that Emiliano can weigh in on this when he sees it. In the meantime, all opinions and input from members are on this subject are very welcome

Also worth remembering that an average audience member (as opposed to "experts" like ourselves) seeing a film such as Il trucido e lo sbirro would not know if the footage used for the film-within-the-film (at least in the case of lesser known films such as in this instance) was re-used or shot specifically for that film, any more than they would for any other re-used footage.

I can't really remember too many examples of film-within-the-film footage off the top of my head, but recycled footage is definitely a staple of cheap Italian genre films and it usually sticks out like a sore thumb due to difference in film stock and quality etc. Identifying where such footage comes from can be more complicated, but remarkably, we currently have pretty much no re-used footage in the filmographies where the source is unknown, and that's really impressive! The only unidentified footage I can think of is the one of Pupita Lea Scuderoni in Vogliamo anche le rose (2007), found by Vecchiaguardia.

[PeplumParadise]

I can't really remember too many examples of film-within-the-film footage off the top of my head, but recycled footage is definitely a staple of cheap Italian genre films and it usually sticks out like a sore thumb due to difference in film stock and quality etc. Identifying where such footage comes from can be more complicated, but remarkably, we currently have pretty much no re-used footage in the filmographies where the source is unknown, and that's really impressive! The only unidentified footage I can think of is the one of Pupita Lea Scuderoni in Vogliamo anche le rose (2007), found by Vecchiaguardia.

Of course the reason for this could be that until we notice that we have 2 identical images of an actor from different films or at least recognise the footage as being familiar then we probably don't realise that it is re-used footage. For example I recently posted images of Giovanni Cianfriglia from Seminò morte... lo chiamavano il Castigo di Dio! which I would have assumed was original footage had Rudy not later posted identical images from Wanted Sabata, shot 2 years earlier. The images from Seminò morte actually look better as they are taken from a better quality print.

[Johan Melle]

Maybe they should be included among the "Additional credits" sections below the filmographies where we put things such as interviews and appearances in documentaries?

I forgot to comment about this, but yes, that's probably a better idea than to create a "Re-used footage" section as we don't want too many sub-filmographies to keep track of.

As for Cianfriglia, I just noticed now that the role posted by Rudy from Mark il poliziotto spara per primo is another film-within-the-film role - with the footage taken from La polizia ha le mani legate in this case.

[Emiliano]

Maybe they should be included among the "Additional credits" sections below the filmographies where we put things such as interviews and appearances in documentaries?

I forgot to comment about this, but yes, that's probably a better idea than to create a "Re-used footage" section as we don't want too many sub-filmographies to keep track of.

I agree with this solution